Xunzi

310 - 240 BCE
Confucianist philosopher during the "later Warring States" period.

Open question:

• How to actually refine desires and cull goals so that one is not frantic and fragmented?
  • Introspection. Applying the rational soul (xin) to planning.
• So what does the junzi desire? What is his yu?
• Does he still act from qing? Is it just a refined qing?
• Do Daoist masters transcend yu and qing? What have other Chinese philosophers said on this?
• How did the Buddhists respond to Xunzi?
  • Xunzi seems to work with "craving and aversion" rather than against it.

Open connections:

• could the Chinese "xin" (see below) be Steiner's "rational soul" (see Theosophy).

• Unlike Zhuangzi, focused on social constructions rather than interior states.

• Trying to eliminate desire is futile.

• Kinds of desires: yu and qing

  • yu: innate desires
  • qing: innate dispositions (see below for classification of different types of qing)
    • "All action, however, deeply considered, starts from such a basic 'spontaneous reactions which are summoned rather than considered'"
      • Is this true? Even for the junzi?

• Like simple desires, complex desires are also based on perceived needs and lacks. (See Core Transformation for a purely contemplative approach to "satisfying" complex desire)

• The petty man is caught in a storm of conflicting desires: si

  • si: "jumble of desires and longings"
    • sī - 1st tone Mandarin Pronunciation (unverified...)
  • "incommensurate" goals demand different sets of activities to attain (eg freedom from responsibility vs money and power)
  • attempt to obtain them all lead to frantic (ji) and fragmented (bu cheng) efforts
  • in society, such fragmentation causes disorder (luan)
    • The Soul of America as of 2024...

• The superior man (junzi) introspects into his many desires, prioritizes, plans, and determines a way of life that he can follow with one-pointedness so that he may sustain the highest degree of pleasure for the longest time.

  • "Whereas the petty man pursues every momentary gratification he can, diminishing or even ruining his chances of long-term security, the noble man carefully calculates the set of prudential actions most likely to produce and sustain the highest degree of pleasure over the long run, then pursues that course with absolute single-mindedness."

• The junzi "attends what makes him singular (shen qi du)"

• Generally, this is through the Way of ritual and music.

• The ultimate pleasure is that of the sage who takes pleasure in his own being. The artfulness of all his actions. His own great integrity.

  • He is "beautiful and fine, whole and integral"
  • So even if the sage is not respected by the kingdom, he is still winning. He still experiences more pleasure than anyone else.
    • quote?

• The junzi partakes in divinity (shen) and transforms himself and others by his way of being.

• A good ruler should create societal institutions such that people feel secure in follow the path of virtue. Participating in institutions will direct them towards higher pleasures (social life, honor).

• After the pleasure of the sage, the next best pleasure is reputation

  • What exactly does he say about reputation?

• The rite of alcohol

• Music and pleasure- same Chinese character.

• Section 2: 4 sociopolitical institutions that guides desires to higher pleasures.

• xunzi wanted to nourish (1), satisfy (2), refine (3), and expand (4) the human capacities for pleasure

• de: virtuous acts, compelling grace, charisma

• esoteric premise that desire is based in the inherent cravings of the sense organs for pleasurable stimuli

• pleasure is linked with approval (ke)

• approval has 3 senses:

  • "I approve it"
  • "it is socially acceptable, customary, or mandated"
  • "it should be approved as a norm"

• classifications of dispositions (qing) towards phenomena

  • hao: "a liking or preference"
  • xi: "a heady frisson of delight" (very interesting, could this be What Gives Me Chills or frisson?). How did Michael Nylan determine that xi was pleasure?
  • wu: "dislike or distaste"
  • nu: "a spurt of anger or frustration"
  • ai: "a more profound or lasting sense of pain and loss"

• the "feeling and thinking heart" (xin) distinguishes man from beast (a favorite topic of philosophers, see Aristotle De Anima).

  • seems to correlate to Steiner's rational soul
  • "It serves to process contacts made through the sensory receptors and correlate those impressions with stored memories of proceeding encounters, resulting in more deliberate that is mindful and committed actions to some ends, but not others."

• lü: mature deliberation based on past experiences

• I find this articulation so true but so irritating: with more experience, mundane decisions can lead to quite sophisticated calculations about whether a phenomena is aligned with ones goals

  • direct quote: "as a result, over time, seemingly mundane deliberations can lead to quite sophisticated calculations, gauging the likelihood that a particular phenomenon will, or will not, fulfill the person's needs and desires of a short or longer term"

• innate metadesire: fundamental desire to achieve and sustain pleasurable sensations for as long as possible

  • The neo-Buddhists hacked this through the Jhanas, yet most do not choose to sit in their Jhanas all day. Through their behavior they have proven that humans are not just pleasure seeking machines.
    • Unless their actually seeking an EVEN GREATER pleasure that comes with even higher state attainments, and the jhanas are still a local max.

• Xunzi does not believe in the subjectivity of desire. He thinks any peasant who tries rich wine and foods for the first time will eventually convert.

Zhuangzi